Ep 34 | You were never meant to pick just one

This week on In Her Words, I sit down with Dr. Kimberly Murray — applied psychologist, leadership coach, TEDx speaker, and professional photographer — to talk about what it actually means to be multi-passionate. Not the polished version. The real one, with all the shame, the internal conflict, and the cost of spending years trying to fit yourself into one lane.

Kimberly and I have both heard the same message our whole lives: pick a thing, get good at it, stop dabbling. From parents, from managers, from the systems that need us legible. In this conversation, we push back on that — and talk about what it looks like to build work and a life that can hold all of who you are.

In This Episode

• Where the shame of picking one comes from
• The difference between being scattered and multipassionate
• What fitting into one lane actually costs you
• How to honor all of yourself intentionally
• What sustainability looks like when you have a lot on your plate

_______________________

• Follow Roberta on LinkedIn for more reflections around how to design work that honors who you are, not just what you can do
• Dr. Kimberly Murray is an applied psychologist, leadership coach, TEDx speaker ("Becoming Who You Didn't Plan to Be"), and creative spirit who helps multi-dimensional leaders leverage their strengths and navigate competing expectations so they can build lives and careers that reflect the full range of who they are. As Founder and Principal of WellSynced, a boutique professional development firm, she draws on more than 20 years of experience spanning government, higher education, entrepreneurship, and a decade as a professional photographer to help people build success that is both meaningful and sustainable. You can connect with her on LinkedIn.

Connect with Roberta on LinkedIn 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to In Her Words. This podcast is for women navigating through change, career, identity, motherhood, and just figuring out what's next. I'm Roberta Dembrowski, host of In Her Words and founder of Learn Mindfully. Each episode, I sit down with women who are asking big questions, navigating transitions, and trying to make sense of life as it shifts. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just need space to be real. Let's get into it. Welcome back to another episode of In Her Words. I'm Roberta, founder of Learn Mindfully. In this episode, I brought my good friend, Dr. Kimberly Murray, to have a conversation with the community. Kimberly is a psychologist, leadership coach, and TEDx speaker who has over 20 years of experience spanning government, entrepreneurship, and even professional photography. This is a recording from this past week's webinar. In it, we chat all about what it actually means to be multi-passionate, about how somewhere between childhood and our first performance review, we're told to pick a lane to get good at one thing and grow up. We also answer questions that people submitted ahead of time and asked during the call. If you want to join live for some upcoming events, just visit learnmindfully.co slash events to sign up. Thanks so much, and I hope you enjoyed this episode. All right, let's go ahead and get started. I'm so excited for this topic today. It is called You Are Never Meant to Pick Just One. And it's a topic that's really dear to my heart with someone who is one of my favorite people to talk about this with. But today we're going to be talking about how really society encourages us to pick one lane, stop doing all the things to fit in one little box, and why that's horrible, horrible, horrible advice. And so we're going to be talking about what it means to be multi-passionate, how you actually can build work that really holds all of who you are. And today I have Dr. Kimberly Murray with me. She's an applied psychologist, leadership coach, TEDx speaker. She did a talk becoming who you didn't plan to be, which we can share after as well. And she's a creative spirit who helps multidimensional leaders leverage their strengths and navigate competing expectations so they can build lives and careers that reflect the full range of who they are. As founder and principal of WellSync, a boutique professional development firm, she draws on more than 20 years of experience, spanning government, higher education, entrepreneurship, and a decade as a professional photographer to help people build success that is both meaningful and sustainable. Welcome, Kimberly. Thanks, Roberta. So let's dive in. You were never meant to pick just one. I'm curious what has your experience been around being multi-passionate, having many interests, if you're able to share a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yes, sure. It's been a journey, I would say, for me. And it's been a lifelong journey. Early on, I think I've always had a lot of interest in the creative kind of arts and doing cross-stitching and painting and coloring and all the things. And then always had this really book smart side as well. And so I think that the adults of my life tried to steer me towards that book smart side. And so I kind of went that practical route. And then I think when I got to graduate school is when it really started to hit that there's this other side of me that wants to come out. And then amongst my different friends, we would have different crafting parties as kind of a break between dissertating and all the things. And then during my postdoc is what I really started to explore, well, maybe I can do different things and maybe I can kind of explore some of these other passions and took courses in fashion design and jewelry design and just all of those kind of creative aspects, and then ultimately had a business as a photographer and still balance that kind of technical side and had the quote unquote practical safe job, but also had this kind of really creative leaning. And so I've always just tried to find ways to honor all parts of myself and really embrace being multi-passionate. Although I would say that there have been challenges along the way, it wasn't always easy.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Yeah, yeah. I can definitely relate to that as well. When I was growing up, I was very much like an artist, a photographer. I loved just doing things and exploring. And I remember my mom telling me when I was younger, like, you have too many hobbies, you just need to pick like one and let it be that. And so I did similar to you. I did like a path in an undergrad. I had this track that I was in, you know, followed the career ladder. And then when I got into corporate, I started getting feedback from like managers of like, I was I would pick up little side projects outside of my role in addition to my work too. And then I started to hear from them the same thing I was hearing from my mother too of like, hey, you need to like pick just one thing. And so I'm curious, like, because I had my own experience, but I'm curious, have you ever had shame or worked with clients who had shame around having multiple interests, multiple paths that they were passionate about?

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Yes, I I have. And I think that it's common for a lot of people who are multi-passionate, especially if you talk about what we mentioned at the top of this call, which is we learn a lot of things from our childhood. And a lot of that messaging gets kind of internalized when we're young. And when we're young and people ask you, oh, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's okay to say, Oh, I want to be a ballerina and I want to be an architect and a veterinarian and an engineer. And we think that it's really endearing and we encourage kids to do that. And then over time, we start sending the message, well, no, you really need to just focus on the thing that's most practical that you're really good at. And that's the key. You have to be good at it in order to pursue it. And that's what signifies being a grown-up. You know what you want to do. And so I think that there is a lot of shame if you're still trying to kind of struggle with, well, I like this and I like this, and they don't seem to be related on the surface. And so it must mean that I haven't quite matured yet. I'm still trying to figure out my life. And I know that even for myself, well into my adulthood, you know, I would see someone or be in their company where they really seem to have it together. They seem to be really successful and to be on a set path. And then I would joke and say, Oh, I want to be like you when I grow up, even though I was a full grown, you know, full grown woman at that point. But still it was like, okay, this it's joke, you know, I'd say it jokingly, but then somehow inside I still felt like, okay, I haven't quite grown up because I'm not on that path. I haven't picked a single lane. And so there is, I think, some shame around that that you haven't quite matured yet if you are still kind of dabbling in all these different areas.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's funny you use the word dabbling because that's always what I how I describe myself. I would say I'm a dabbler. I like being into multiple things. But yeah, I feel like it's um it's two things that come to mind for me right now. One is I feel like a lot of the shame comes from other people around us. It's the social conditioning because we don't fit into the black and white boxes. It's either you're this or this, because as humans, we like to categorize things and things and people that don't fit neatly into a box, we don't know how to interpret them. And so it makes it really difficult for people to understand, like, oh, you're a photographer and you do this. Like, like their brain, like is it doesn't compute like a lot of the time. Um, and so that's I think one thing is just like the social conditioning and just black and white mentality, and then also the comparison, too, of what you were saying of you know, I look to this other person and they seem to have it all together. But we're all on our own paths, so it's like I always say comparison is like the thief of joy, you should compare yourself to the previous versions of yourself because you're the only person on that path. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Yes, yes. And you know, that's something else that I think about. I think that there's, you know, this component of shame, yes. And I think that also there's a part of it that has to just kind of deal with our own innate need for belonging, right? And to feel like we fit in somewhere. And so it's easier to feel like you fit in somewhere if you know who you are, and if you have kind of like a lane that you can communicate clearly to other folks and then they can connect with that. And so sometimes I think it's about the shame, and sometimes I think it's about being able to just kind of find your find your people and feel like you belong somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, community connection and belonging for sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you feel like it costs you anything to try and fit into a single lane?

SPEAKER_03 9:09

I think that a lot of times it costs, at least for me, it cost me, I think, peace of mind at different points during my career and my life. And then I think that there was also a cost to just feeling disconnected at times from the things that really energized me and brought me joy, even if I was in the midst of it and I knew that it was kind of fueling my mental health and my well-being. At some point, I would always put that thing aside to focus on the thing that was practical, like my full-time job. This is what I really need to just lock into. And I can't really dabble in those other things because that's not what's paying the bills. That's not what's going to lead to this traditional version of success. And so a lot of times I think the cost was internal. It was like this mental kind of anguish, so to speak, not to sound too melodramatic about and this internal conflict of like, I know that this thing is what's going to really help me to feel, you know, most alive and to kind of live a life that's well lived. And at the same time, I feel like I ought to really just focus on what is the bread and butter and what's most practical.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

That I can definitely relate to that as well, uh, for sure. I've I've personally gone through um a few different chapters of my career. Like first really 12 years was in corporate full time. And then the last four years, it's been more of like a portfolio path. So it's like coaching and doing like contract work on the side. Um, and sometimes when you're in those seasons, especially coming out of corporate, it's like you don't have to worry as much because you have the steady paycheck. You're not thinking about like how are you getting paid next. But when you start to go down the portfolio path a little bit more or you build like your own career, you do have to think about like what is gonna pay the bills and like benefits and stuff like that, because in the US, it's so linked to obviously work. Um, but then there's also like what fills up your heart and what nurtures you and gives you energy in honoring those two things. Do you think it is possible to honor those two things, those two parts of yourself?

SPEAKER_03 11:16

I do. I do. I think you have to be really intentional about it. Yeah. Um, just for context for some of the folks on the call. My full-time job is in the government, federal government, which is very different from um my creative side, which seems like it probably doesn't have as many areas where you can really be flexible and honor all parts of yourself. But I think that it is absolutely possible, but that you have to plan for it and you have to be intentional and not expect it to just kind of happen or expect folks to necessarily create those opportunities for you. For myself, a lot of times, especially more recently, as I've really tapped into who I am, what's most important to me, what's most important to me more particularly in this season, I've had to create those opportunities at work and say, okay, I want to do more of this thing. It's not really part of my job description. So how can I make that happen? And how can I make, you know, connections with other folks across the agency, Google on our intranet, and try to figure out, okay, are there opportunities to do that? Instead of having someone say, well, no, that's not possible here. Let me figure that out for myself.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Have you ever gotten pushback from an employer of like not doing side projects on the side or like the things outside of work? Have you ever had like uh restrictions in place or anything like that?

SPEAKER_03 12:37

I don't know about specific restrictions, so to speak. I've had mentors early on, which when I in my TED talk I talked about that. At my current job, I'm very careful about making sure that I get permissions in advance to do the thing just because the environment is such that you really need to make sure that you have permission and not kind of just go rogue and do your own thing. And so, luckily for me, everything that I've wanted to do, as long as it wasn't a conflict of interest in terms of my paid role, I've been able to do those things. That's awesome. That's amazing. Um have you had those restrictions?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah, I um a few years ago I actually left a full-time role because I got offered to be an adjunct professor for like a master's program. And I went to HR, like I went through the proper channels and they were like, no, you can't do it. It was not people are not allowed to teach here. Um, but I had other people who were on the staff who were teaching. So I actually it when we talk about like that tension, I felt it at that moment because it was like my I called it my dream role at the time. And then it felt like I couldn't honor part of myself because teaching and coaching that is a big part of just who I am as a person. And it created such a tension. I actually decided to leave that role because I am someone who is multi-passionate. I need to know whether I I'll be able to honor those parts of myself in that environment. And if I can't, then I'd rather know sooner rather than later than like get in there and start building a team and stuff like that. You did talk a lot about being able to honor both parts of yourself and plan and keeping making sure you have a plan and staying organized. And so I'm curious because one of the things that folks who are multi-passionate sometimes can hear is you're being scattered. You're scattered, you're dabbling, these kind of negative terms. And I'm I'm curious, how do you hold distinction between like being scattered and then being multi-passionate? What does that kind of mean? What are the differences to you?

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Yes, I love that question. And it's funny, I was laughing because as you were saying that, I remember when I was younger, not even a child, but probably like early adulthood, and my mom saying, like, oh, what are you gonna do next, Kimberly? You know, underwater basket weaving. And I was just like, oh my goodness, because I love to try different things. And for me, when I hear about somebody being scattered, I think it all is around intentionality, right? If you're scattered, I think that you're just kind of pursuing every single opportunity and the next shiny new object, right? A shiny new thing, you know, syndrome. And you're kind of jumping from one thing to the next just because you are excited by the energy. And there's no kind of like thread to connect them all. But I think when you're multi-passionate, yes, you're interested in a lot of different things. You might be exploring different opportunities, different passions, but that there is this underlying coherence to it all. And there's this thread. And for me, that thread is often your strengths. So what your natural way of thinking, feeling, doing, behaving, and that that's kind of what underlies all of the different passions or the things that you're doing, whether you recognize it on the surface or not. A lot of times if we stand back and we even think back over the different things that we've been doing across our lives, there is something that connects them all, right? And it's just that that particular strength is being expressed in different ways. And so for me, that's the difference between being scattered and being multi-passionate. It's really just the intentionality behind it and whether you're just chasing the next shiny new thing or if you're expressing your passions and your interests and your talents in just different ways.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, I love that. I often say that your values are like your North Star in many ways. They're your compass, they're guiding you in the same way that your strengths are. I didn't name my values when I was younger or my strengths, but they were guiding. Like if I look back at my career path of all the roles that I've had, you can see the thread, you can see how I got right here. And I'm sure it's very similar for you as well in all your different roles, too.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yes, yes. And like for me, it's it's one of the things, for example, I used to hide the fact that I was a photographer amongst my kind of work technical group. And then I would hide the fact that I had a doctorate when I was amongst the photography crew because I didn't want to seem like I wasn't really serious in either of those realms. And when I would mention that, people would kind of say, like, okay, what does being a psychologist have to do with being a photographer? What does being a coach have to do with being a photographer? And then for me, it's it's all about kind of puzzles. Like I love, I love putting together puzzles, even if I think about the things that I just naturally enjoy doing, Legos, puzzles, things like that. And there's an aspect of that, like the strategic aspect, which in my role in my full-time job, I'm a senior advisor for strategic planning. And I love a good challenge to solve, right? Um puzzle pieces to put together and photography trying to figure out the lighting and the composition and the textures and the colors and what can make the most impactful image. And so it's all about kind of putting these different elements together in a way that um is able to communicate the clearest picture, so to speak, ways.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, no, I love that. It's funny you mentioned the photography and being a psychologist, and you you described the strategy piece. For me, I think the pattern that I see too on those things are just the observation. They're like when you're a photographer, you're viewing perspectives and like being with the human condition, you're using like your camera lens, very similar for being a psychologist. So just like you're exploring, you're helping people see other perspectives as well. So yeah, I'm sure there's many, many similarities between the two fields, but yeah, very cool. Very cool. Um, and so you that is a really great example of how you edited yourself and how you were showing up in different spaces based on um what you wanted people to know about you. What happened when you stopped doing that? I mean, I assume now you introduce yourself to others and describe all the parts of your life.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Yes, I do. I think that when I started to do that, I felt kind of lighter. You know, because there is this kind of heaviness and this exhaustion that comes with trying to figure out, okay, who should I be in this space? Okay, let me figure out what hat am I supposed to wear here? What can I mention? What can I, you know, what should I hide so that I come across as really credible, so that people get it without me having to kind of waffle and think about all the things to say to describe it. And so this feeling of being freer, and I think combined with that is this being able to just connect more easily and more readily with other people, right? Because I felt like I was being more true to myself, more authentic, able to come across in that way. And the interesting thing is that as I'm explaining more of who I am, just at my core, what really excites me, what I love to do, other people like, oh my goodness, I have that interest too. And I think that you find that you have things in common that you would not have known had you decided, okay, let me just mention the one thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

And then I think that the last thing is that, you know, I kind of felt like less internal conflict, right? And feeling more integrated. And, you know, I don't have to be like a creative over here and an advisor over here and a mom over here, but I bring all of that together and who I am, you know, expresses itself in different ways across all of those roles. And that there is this kind of just core being that I am that just shows up in different ways in those various roles.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Absolutely. I find also that when you fully show up as yourself and all honor all those different parts of you that are multifaceted, I think it gives people around you permission to do the same. Because it's like we're all again, we talked about like affiliation, community connection, belonging. We're all trying to belong. And when we show other people, like, here's all the different parts of myself of what I'm doing. I'm a mom, I'm a business owner, I'm this, I'm that. They're like, oh yeah, me too. Like they feel like they have permission to show up as they are as well, which is really inspiring.

SPEAKER_03 21:22

Yes, yes. I don't know why this just made me think about when you just talked about showing up as yourself. Last week it was interesting. Like Snoop Dogg is on LinkedIn. This is a little bit of a stanchion. I promise it makes sense. He's on um LinkedIn and he was saying that people would say to him, like, oh, you've really reinvented yourself. And he realized that no, this isn't really a reinvention of myself. This is me finally talking into who I actually am at my core being. And he was saying that he used to be afraid to kind of express these interests that weren't the norm because he didn't want to be seen as different. Right. But I That now he feels like he's able to do that. And here's somebody who's wildly successful, right? Who also went through the struggle. And I think that it's absolutely what you said. It's like we have to kind of get comfortable with who we are. And as we're expressing that more, I think that that then inspires other people, even if you're not somebody who's famous, you can inspire those around you to say, you know what, maybe I can try that too. And maybe it can work for me as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah, absolutely. And for those who don't know, Snoop Dogg does have a child like rap album. We played it from this one in the class. So it's manifesting in lots of different ways. He's doing the Olympics commentating, sports commentating, rapping. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:41

The ABC song is fire and the affirmations.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah. Um, but I think that honestly, when we talk about people, it's very common that celebrities do that sort of thing. Like, even if you look at like Dwayne Johnson, The Rock started career as a professional wrestler. Now he's an actor. He's in Moana, like, did the voice of Moana, he's Moana live action now. So it's like he, I think actors especially wear many different hats. They can be writers, producers, actors, all of those things, which is a really amazing template. Um, for us as well. I know some people, I actually know a fellow coach who does acting classes too. So that's part of how she is and how she shows up. Um, and so I kind of wanna, I'm very curious because we have folks on the call. Um, we're gonna open up for questions very soon.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Most people are typing in. Um, Roberta, something came to mind as you were talking about actors and kind of their different um roles and identities, so to speak. And it brought up for me the idea that you can be multi-passionate without having to pursue those different passions professionally, right? And try to monetize them, right? You think about multi-hyphenates and we think about the actor, choreographer, dancer, but you don't have to do all those things. It's like we can find a way to still honor our passions and our interests without feeling like we have to turn them into a business and that they have to be this income-generating part of who we are.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I thank you for saying that. And I think I think this is very prominent, especially now, given like the current state of the workforce. I think a lot of people are thinking about how they can monetize different passions and things and build a life that they're hoping to. But sometimes it's also just nice to have a hobby for yourself, whether it's watercolor painting or something else, um, a hobby can stay a hobby if you want it to, or it can turn into something more. Um, there are some questions that we got during registration from folks. So I'm gonna start to incorporate some of those. Um and so one of the questions very on topic to what we just started talking about, Kimberly. How do you find work that includes multiple very different passions without having to build your own business?

SPEAKER_03 25:06

That is a great question. I think that it's it's it's interesting because I think that there is the tendency to feel like this job isn't giving me everything that I need in terms of fulfilling my passions, my interests. And so I need to find something different. Instead of saying, okay, how can I bring more of what I want and what I need into this role? And sometimes for me, for example, it's been either volunteering for something at work, seeking out different work groups, sometimes trying to see if there are ways that I could expand my job description so that it could be, you know, something that counts, you know, on a performance evaluation at the end of the year, although sometimes those volunteer opportunities do. Um, and sometimes for me it's been creating initiatives at work and proposing something new that feeds my passions and my strengths. And yeah, I think that that's for me what it is. It's again about being really intentional about what it is that you need and seeking out ways to make that happen, sometimes within your role, recognizing that you don't necessarily need to throw it all away and start your own business, unless, of course, you want to. And that's good too. Um, there are pros and cons, I think, on either side of things. And sometimes we think that the way to go is just to create your own job business, and then that can sometimes have you doing things that also are not within your wheelhouse and that are not your strengths and that don't bring you joy because you may not have the capital, for example, to hire out those different roles. And so you have to do it. You have to be that person, and then you're like, oh my goodness, now I'm still doing things that I don't really enjoy doing. So pros and cons.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Absolutely. Um, I love this question. And one of the core questions that I ask with clients that I when I start working with them is like, what is the role that you want work to play in your life? What part of you do you want it to honor? And I I consider work similar to like relationships, right? You have maybe a partner, a romantic partner, you have family, you have friends, you have all these different people in your life that serve different parts of you. It's typically very hard to find one role that's gonna honor all parts of you, too. It is possible for sure, um, but it's really like what do you want your full-time role to honor for you if you do have full-time? And then it may be building something on the side or doing something on the side, volunteering on the side or something like that. Um I am the queen of kind of job hopping in the past. I've I've had many different parts of my career. I've been in learning design and product and research, and I've run my own business. And so, usually what I'm I'm thinking about is what part of myself do I want to honor during this season in this role for this type of work, and then how do I want to build it? Um, so I think that is something. And then as you start building things, if you have certain passions, there may be ways to do it through like contract work potentially, if you don't want to build your own business. There are people that typically hire for um different types of roles as well, and sometimes they'll take a cut of the money, but they'll bring you clients so you don't have to do the sales part and stuff like that. Cause when you do start to build your own business, there is a lot of that. There's accounting, there's sales, there's a lot involved. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

I'm seeing some folks messaging in the chat. Um mentioned he's more frequently doing special projects at work and wants that to become the core of his job while not also giving up the initial scope of his work. So it sounds like he's in a dynamic where he's able to add things that he's interested in to parts of his role, which is really exciting.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yes. And part of what I read also in comment is adding these new special projects while also still having to juggle the initial scope, right? Like I can't give up some of the core parts of my job description and my duties while I'm adding these things that are more interesting to me. And so how do you kind of navigate that? And I think that's that's a slippery slope, right? That's it's it's a little bit of a double-edged sword. Yes, I'm doing more things that are fueling my passions, my interests, and yet I have these other things that I must do because they're part of what I was hired to do. And how do you maintain that? I don't want to say balance because I often talk about harmony, but how do you maintain that? I'll say balance for lack of a better word, without getting burnt out. And so there's part of burnout that I think is around having too much work to do. There's part of burnout that has to do with not being energized, not being able to do things that you want to do. And so now you're doing both. And how can you have that conversation, perhaps, with your supervisor if you're not the person who's in charge about how do I, you know, give up some of these other parts of my role to honor these special projects? And for me, I think that sometimes it's communicating the value that these special projects bring and how if they are really invested in those projects, I need to spend more of my energy there in order to get this initiative off the ground, in order to have people buy into it and so that it spreads across the organization. And perhaps there's somebody else that I can train or work alongside to also take on this other role that I used to, um, that I used to fill. Have you experienced that, Roberto? And just cares your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah, I sent one of my favorite articles in the chat. It's called How to Give Away Your Legos. Um, it's very common. I spend a lot of years in startup environments, which is like your role is constantly expanding and you're typically burned out. And one of the things that I always tell the people is like, your job's always going to be evolving in some way, and you can't do it all. And so definitely recommend having conversations with leadership with managers and talking about like, here's what I've done so far for the business, here's where I'm looking to grow a little bit more. And can we design something, co-design a role, or what it looks like, or what can I take off of my plate? Um, and so that's a really great article. Essentially, like what ends up happening in a lot of roles that I've been in is like I start to focus on the thing that only I can do. What's the only thing that I can do? Like my skill set, it's the best use of my time. I enjoy doing it and prioritize that, and then give away some of the other things that maybe like you're used to or you got hired to do, but now it's time to build like a succession plan and you can start to build up other people on the team as well. Um, some employers are open to that, some are not. It really is gonna depend on like the organization um and how they're aligning with you and like your relationship with your boss and your manager and stuff like that. So um, I definitely I always like when I work with clients, I encourage them to do some like visioning. If you could imagine your perfect day at work, what do you want it to look like? And like really start to chart it out and see how does this compare to what I'm doing right now, where's the gap? And then that could kind of drive your conversations too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

When you mentioned that one of the things that I thought about is um when I'm working with clients, I also have them to create a not now list because sometimes I think that if we're not able to do the thing that we love, that means no. And that means I need to just forget about it and kind of, you know, there's some grieving that comes with feeling like you're letting go of something that feels like it's really important to you. You're interested in it, you're passionate about it. But what's on your not now list and then what is on the absolute new list? And so a lot of times if we realize that, okay, that thing just doesn't fit into this current season because I don't have the capacity, that doesn't mean that it's off the table forever.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, I love that. I had one of my mentors back in the day, she told me, because I will she recognized me being multi-passionate. She said, You can do it all, Roberta, but not at the same time. And like when I heard that, definitely what you're describing, like a little bit of grieving, like, what? I can't do all of it. But then it forced me to really get strategic about the season of life that I'm in. You know, I'm two years postpartum almost, like I'm not gonna be. There's certain parts of life that I'm not gonna be able to honor, and there's things that I'll come back to down the road, and there's nothing wrong with that.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

So yes, yes, yeah, and that doesn't change your identity as a multi-passionate, right? Because a lot of times I think there's a misconception that if you're multipassionate, that means that you enjoy doing all the things all the time and that you have the time to do all the things all the time, and you will figure it out, you'll find a way to be able to do it all at the same time. And that I think that there is this realization as your seasons of life change, as other variables kind of enter the equation, that you need to make some adjustments and that your identity does not equal the activity. And so you can have times when one thing, you know, takes the lead and is in the forefront and the other things kind of recede into the background. And then the next season that might totally shift, and then it's this dance, you know, that happens.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Yeah, absolutely. Uh, speaking about that dance, we did get one of the questions during registration talked about, you know, being multi-passionate and struggling to be able to go deep into the passions, and then having almost like some guilt or shame around not being able to go into different passions at certain times. And I'm wondering if you have any tips for folks who are multi-passionate and maybe they're not able to go into a certain area at this stage in their life, this season of life. Any tips or recommendations for that?

SPEAKER_03 35:27

I think first, just you know, I I know people always say like have grace and give yourself grace. And it sounds so cliche, but I think that's you recognize that again, it's just this particular season. And what does this season require of you? And what is it asking of you? And is there another way? Sometimes we want to go all in and it's all or nothing, but is there a small way that you can still feed that passion without going all in? Is there a singular step that you can take? And I think for me, you know, sometimes, and it's funny because my husband brought this up. So I'm I said I was a work in progress. It's a journey for me. I'm standing here looking at this standing loom that I have in my office that I won't even tell you when I purchased it one, when I built it to, and when I started to weave on this thing three. And the other day I was telling my husband, like, ugh, I haven't had a chance to crochet. I haven't really been practicing the piano on this standing loom. And he said to me, But you did, you know, just put together an 800, you know, piece puzzle. And I had to pause and say, okay, true, true. And so sometimes we're looking at the activity. I didn't get a chance to do this activity, but what is it that we're getting from that activity? What is the underlying enjoyment that we're getting from it? What is it that it's what what need is it filling, right? And then is there some other activity that can still meet that same need? And so I think that that can erase some of the kind of guilt around, oh, I didn't get to do that thing that I really say I I keep saying I want to do, is maybe you can meet that need in another way that's smaller and that's more aligned with what your current capacity is.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and it's talking a little bit about the connections, like we were saying before, what's the connection between photography and psychology? And like, hey, there's multiple ways to scratch that itch that you might have as well. So um, yeah, I love that. I have, I think we all probably have those rooms in our house uh with projects of things. Uh, I have a lot of art supplies and bins right now, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

I just spot watercolors and watercolor brushes. I was like, I want to teach myself how to watercolor. I was looking back at a comment about, you know, all of a sudden you're a 1.3 FTE. And it brought me back to something that's happening currently. So one of the things um that I'm really passionate about is coaching, and it's not part of my role. Um, but at my agency and my organization, they have internal coaches, and so now they have a cadre of internal coaches. And so I was like, oh my goodness, I've been wanting to do this. Let me kind of put my name on this list and apply for this opportunity. And then I did. And so now I have, you know, four and five inquiries about, you know, taking me on as their coach and having more coaching clients. And then somebody reached out recently about doing a team strength session for their team, and they have three managers and six individual contributors, and they want individual strengths debriefing sessions and then a team session. And I was like, okay, I asked for this, and now it's feeling like it's a lot. And so I need to be honest with myself about what is my real capacity, you know, at work. Do I want this to be like this 1.3 FTE, or do I want to make sure that I'm still being able to complete my job in the hours that are allotted, so that I also have time outside of work to do these other things. And so I'm not stressed and burnt out doing something that I said that I wanted to do and that I love doing. And so there is this real dance, and I think a conversation that we need to have with ourselves kind of, I don't say every day, but perhaps every week, really taking stock. Okay, how are things feeling right now? And do I need to either find a way to take some of these things off of my plate or at the bare minimum, not accept any new opportunities, even though I may want to until X date. And so in my head, I'm already thinking, okay, I might say yes, but it might be yes, and yes, and I can't take on any new coaching clients at work until September because I know that some of the current ones will be kind of on their way out to um closing out their session package, but I it is, it's it's really interesting. We we seek these opportunities, we're able to do some exciting work, and then the current work doesn't, workload doesn't change. And so we have to make some hard decisions, I think, sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Yeah, yeah. This really resonates as well. Um, I I think it's almost like the curse of being multi-passionate in many ways, because it's like you are inundated with opportunities that you really love, and so it's like a different kind of tension uh when it comes up.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

I guess Kimberly or Roberta, as you've um like started your businesses or gone through different seasons where you've had to make those trade-off choices, like questions that you ask yourself, or like how do you sort of like structure um your approach to that? Or like for your current business, like how did you decide like, no, like this is the time that I kind of want to focus on this? Um, anything I'm kind of in a recalibration time to thinking about directions. So just helpful to get a feel for what comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

But I always start with like my big why, what's my vision? Um, and so like I I'm someone who's gone through many a seasons over the last few years because you know, I I had baby, so I always describe like my work and my passion projects as something that I can dial up and dial down because I want it to be sustainable over the long run. And so I have my like North Star, which is like my big vision, and then I also am typically asking myself, like, what do I want for this season that I'm in? And I do that a few times a year. I ask myself that. Um, and it's usually kind of like beginning of the year, I'll do like a mid-year check-in and kind of end of the year just as like a recalibration for myself. But a lot of it actually stems from listening to my body. I'm like, how do I want to feel? So I always describe like doing and being. So the being side of me is like, how do I want to feel? How do I want to show up? What kind of energy do I want to have? And then the doing is what do I want to do? We are usually always in doing mode, like a lot, especially as multi-passionate people. We're like, no, I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to do that. And we don't usually ask ourselves like, how do we want to feel? And so that's usually where I start. Um, I just had to ask myself those tough questions again, um, because I am right now in grad school for counseling. I am business owner, I'm a mom. Um, and then yeah, I'm gonna go back to full-time work. I'm gonna be transitioning back to full-time work um for like my family for sustainability. And so what that means for me is that part of my coaching business will be dialing it down. I won't be ending it, but I'll be just be taking on fewer clients a couple times a month versus what I do now, which is like 20 hours a week. So it's it's hard, but I also know like 10 years from now, I'm probably gonna be doing this full time being a therapist and a coach. So it's like there's trade-offs there, and I know that it's just for this season for myself, my family, the energy and what I need. Um, so those are some things that I ask myself. But yeah, Kimberly, I'd love to hear your thoughts as well.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

Yes, and I'm actually in a little bit of that season myself. Um, have similar kind of things going on in my life, full-time job. I mentioned I have two school age children, they're seven and ten, and requiring a lot more of me, I think, now. And I've always been very um much a type A high achiever type of person who always thought, okay, if this is something that I want to do, I'm going to go after it and I can I can make it happen. What I've been asking myself now is what is it that I want and what does that require? For a while, I was um really on this path of trying to build a speaking career. And as I'm thinking about what does that require of me? What will that require of me? Kind of having a list and writing down that, those answers, and then asking myself, okay, what would that also require me then to give up? What would have to, you know, I don't want to say be sacrificed. You know what things will have to perhaps be reduced in order for me to increase my time pursuing whatever professional goal or business goal that I have? And is that going to mean that I will have less time to spend with my kids? Does that mean that I'm not going to be able to have slow mornings on Saturdays? Does that mean that I'm going to have to not devote as much time to my marriage and my spouse? And is that okay? All these, are these trade-offs something that I'm willing to really factor into my decision and decide that I'm still going to do it anyway? And so I'm having to just have those honest conversations with myself about okay, what is that new goal, that business expectation, that business goal? What does that require? And then what is that going to mean that I have to kind of let go of or spend less time doing? And is that okay with me in this season? And is that the life that I want to live ultimately? And so I'm, you know, now making some changes in terms of, you know, some of my big goals that I have. And again, saying perhaps that's not now. And that's that doesn't mean not ever. But that if I'm really most passionate and what matters most to me in this season is, for example, being there for my children as they're growing and supporting them, then perhaps that means I can't be on the road all the time speaking, you know, without having other supports in place. And if you do, I think decide that there is a big goal that you want to achieve and pursue as it relates to your business, thinking about okay, what are some supports that I need to have in place? And not just supports in terms of um family, friends who can help to shoulder some of the load, but are there ways that you need to outsource different aspects of your business that can make it easier for you to just focus on the thing that you do best and the thing that you are most passionate about?

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Yeah, very well said. Really great questions. Um, absolutely. Those are similar, similar questions that I ask myself as well as what is it gonna require? What do you have to give up? Um, and are you willing to do that? And it it it takes a knowing of what are your priorities in your life, what is the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_03 46:11

So absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

And being honest about what that biggest thing is, not what I should say is my biggest thing and my my top priority and what matters most, um, but what actually is your biggest thing that matters most to you. And I think that a lot of times, well, not a lot of times, but I think many times, we still get caught up with the should and the expectations of others that are kind of just like ringing in our ear. This is the correct answer that I should say as a professional, as a parent, as whatever, I should say that this is the most important thing to me.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, this hour has gone by so incredibly fast. Um, I do want to transition a little bit. Um, if folks want to stay in contact with us, um, I am running a special this summer for a Spark session, which is my one hour session at a discount. I'll include the information in the follow-up email. And I know Kimberly also has a session she's offering as well.

SPEAKER_03 47:12

Yes, yes. A signature strength session. So if you're curious, just kind of about your clifton strengths, for example, and what strengths might underlie all of your different passions and help to connect them, then that's um a session that I would love to do with you.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

Thanks for being here. If something in this episode landed with you, feel free to pass it along to someone who might need it too. You can leave a review, subscribe, or just keep tuning in. We're figuring it out together. And remember your story, your voice, your becoming, it all matters.