Ep 35 | Why the logical next step feels like a trap

If you've ever taken the "smart" next step in your career — the promotion, the raise, the role everyone congratulated you for — and still felt like something was wrong, this episode is for you.

I'm joined by Nyam Adodoadji, a somatic practitioner, poet, and guide for creative leaders navigating career transition, to unpack why the most logical next step often isn't the right one — and how to tell the difference.

Nyam spent years in product management at a Silicon Valley startup before burnout (crying in bathrooms, working brutal hours) pushed her toward a year-long sabbatical across Ghana, Colombia, Mexico, Spain, and Portugal. She didn't come back with the clarity she was looking for. She came back with better questions — and a new career helping other people ask them.

In this conversation, we talk about:

• Why the career ladder narrative (college, job, climb the rungs) was never actually a choice for most people, and how financial pressure keeps us from questioning it
• How midlife and the pandemic forced a wave of career reevaluation, especially for women and femmes socialized to prioritize everyone else's expectations first
• Why your body signals misalignment (panic attacks, exhaustion, burnout) long before your mind is willing to admit something's wrong
• Why career change doesn't have to mean quitting your job tomorrow — and what low-stakes experimentation actually looks like

Whether you're a mid-career tech leader feeling the pull toward something different, quietly burnt out but still high-performing, or just trying to figure out what you actually want instead of what you were conditioned to want — this episode will give you language for what you're feeling and a real place to start.

________________________________________

Connect with Nyam on LinkedIn or grab a copy of her career reflection guide

Connect with Roberta on LinkedIn and grab a copy of her workbook

Connect with Roberta on LinkedIn 

Grab Consciously Crafting Your Career Path: https://www.learnmindfully.co/store

If this episode sparked new insight, please consider rating, following, or reviewing the show. It’s the best way to help more people find and benefit from these vital conversations. Thanks for listening!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to In Her Words. This podcast is for women navigating through change, career, identity, motherhood, and just figuring out what's next. I'm Roberta Dembrowski, host of In Her Words and founder of Learn Mindfully. Each episode, I sit down with women who are asking big questions, navigating transitions, and trying to make sense of life as it shifts. You don't have to have it all figured out. You just need space to be real. Let's get into it. Welcome back to another episode of In Her Words. I'm Roberta, founder of Learn Mindfully. In this episode, I brought my friend Nayam Ado Dowaji to have a conversation with the community. Nayam is a somatic practitioner, poet, and guide for creative leaders in transition. Her coaching and creative work explores themes of identity and human becoming. This is a recording from last week's webinar. In it, we chat all about why the career ladder narrative was never actually a choice for most people. How the pandemic had many rethinking their approach to work and why career change doesn't always have to mean quitting your job. We also answer questions that people submitted ahead of time and asked during the call. If you want to join live for some more upcoming events, just visit learnmindfully.co slash events to sign up. Thanks so much. And I hope you enjoy this episode. So let's go ahead and jump in. So I know you as someone who has navigated a number of career transitions like myself to help kind of ground everybody. I was wondering if you could share a little bit about your background and journey that brought you to where you are today.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, yeah. I would say my journey is really marked by a lot of twists and turns. So very familiar with kind of transition. I started my career as a product manager in tech very much by accident. I was always a creative, sensitive girly. When I graduated from college, though, I ended up at a Silicon Valley startup, which was very different than what I expected. That unfortunately what kicked off kind of a number of cycles of burnout, crying in bathrooms, working wild hours till I, in 2021, during the pandemic, had a moment of reckoning, as I think a lot of people did in different ways. And I was just like, is this just going to be my life? Am I just going to keep working at jobs? I burn out, I quit, and then I come back again. That led me to I take a one-year career break. So I planned and saved and took about a year off because I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I want to try to re-reset my life and career trajectory. And I thought at the end of the year I was going to know exactly what I wanted to do. I did not. And I think uh we'll kind of get more into it in the conversation. But I explored trying to do some some product consulting work, but realized I wanted to help my peers ask the most important questions in life. That's what led me into the coaching branch of things.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

Very cool. Very cool. Thank you for sharing your background and journey. Well, you mentioned about the it's like the iterations of burnout. I definitely can relate to that coming from a tech background as well. And what a gift you gave yourself with the year-long sabbatical.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, yeah. It was I it's not an understatement to say it saved my life, truly.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you do any traveling during that time?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I did a little bit. I went to Ghana, which is where my family is from, Colombia, Mexico, Spain, and Portugal.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

So we're talking about today, like the next logical step. And I guess to ground us a little bit, I'm curious about your perspective of like career transitions and like trajectory, because I know oftentimes it was like you work hard, you climb a ladder, you make it to the next rung. What is your perspective now based on like your own journey and then even the work you do through your coaching as well?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Yeah. Yeah. From my perspective, I never I never really climbed the corporate ladder. I think there was always something in me that kind of like I could sense that I didn't quite fit into the career ladder, which I think was a part of what the burnout was signaling. Yeah. But I know for a lot of, you know, a lot of peers and folks kind of at mid-life, mid-career, it's totally makes sense, right? Like we were told like, hey, like here's the thing you do, like go to college, maybe go to grad school, like get XYG, XYZ type of job, climb the ladder. And, you know, we weren't necessarily presented with alternatives. And that was kind of how I experienced it too. It was like, all right, well, I don't know. I guess, I guess I'll do this. But yeah, but I don't know too if if you're experiencing this in in the cultural moment as well, it feels like now's this moment where everybody was like, hold up, hold up, hold up. This was supposed to be when I'm stabilizing and now everything's falling apart.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I would say um what you mentioned really resonates. Like, I if I think about my own career, like I fell into tech as well. Like I first job out of school, went into tech. You know, you're told that you'll get great salary, and that's how it all started, and kind of switched between product and research and stuff like that. When I talk to a lot of clients, I hear similar themes where it's like, you know, I went into this, I didn't really think about other options unless you have like something like a career counselor during your time in college or even like high school who talks about these different paths and what they mean. They're typically not starting with like, here's how I want my life to look like when I'm older, and then this is the work that's gonna get me there. It's usually like, oh, like I gotta pay off my loans or like debt, let me get in this job and like see where it goes. And so with midlife, it's an identity shift stage you're going through, and that causes you to question everything. And then on top of the pandemic, that was another identity, like seismic identity, like shift for everybody, where we're just like, we're at home, what are we doing? Am I happy? Um do I have energy and all of that? So, and then you blink and it's 2026, almost August, which is crazy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I think it's like a very common like theme and pattern that I'm seeing with people as they're going through transitions right now is just uh, you know, what do I want? Like, even though I did this before, what does that look like now? Which is really powerful, but also scary time. It can be scary, it can be disorienting as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, yeah. And I think too, I feel like for a lot of women and femmes in particular, I think we're we're also socialized to orient ourselves around other people's and other people's priorities and expectations. And so I think midlife also has that layer of, I think it's when a lot of women and femmes are like, wait a second, you know, and so but it can also be disorienting because if you're not used to tapping into what you actually want, it's like, well, how do I even how do I even do that?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

You know? And so I'm curious, we're starting to talk about it a little bit um from your own experience or even working with clients as well. Did you go through a process of like thinking about other people's expectations when you were like about to take that year-long sabbatical or even going through like different career transitions?

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. The expectations I bumped up against, I think, were maybe kind of a little bit of like shame in terms of like how many times I had left jobs and I often didn't have other jobs lined up because I was just like so gutted from burnout. Yeah. I don't think it's uncommon for people to be carrying right other people's expectations uh throughout their career. And I think it it can be tricky too, because it it can kind of be mixed in in together with like it is giving us something, right? Maybe it's like, you know, say with a tech career, even if you don't expect it, it's like that financial stability um makes a huge difference. Or maybe it's getting you approval, maybe it's getting you belonging. So there is something about the expectations that can be tricky, but yeah, I think what where it starts to to rub is when it's like, okay, like, but I this really is not, this is not clicking and I want something different. So what do I what do I do with these expectations? How can I have a different relationship to them, you know?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, absolutely. That resonates a lot. One thing that I notice is the rub you're talking about. It for me, it manifested in like panic attacks or exhaustion. Like I was seeing symptoms somatically show up that impacted just like happiness outside of life, like outside of work in my everyday life, that it's almost like the body starts to scream to you to notice, so you'll pay attention and then make take an action or change something based off of that.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that that that's a very common story, that it is like when we're used to being maybe being disconnected from ourselves, not knowing kind of our signals of what feels right for us or in tune for us, that the the body gets our attention is like, hey, hey, but that can also be a really painful process. Like I've also experienced things like like panic attacks, like yeah, you know, the the recurring, the recurring burnout, yeah, the crying in in bathrooms, crying and also crying in front of colleagues, right? Yeah, these these things that are painful and tender, but that are also like signals that are saying that are telling us that something's not right, you know.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, it's telling us, you know, you're a human inside of the system. I've been through a number of transitions myself. I think the most difficult one for me to go through was when I stepped down from the executive level transition because it's like you know, you have BP title, you have the salary, you have the bone the benefits and all of that stuff. And the act of sharing it with other people, they're like, have you lost your mind? More family than anybody else, because of like depending on backgrounds, it's like, no, that is the the culmination of all your work. Why would you abandon that for something that like you're doing your own business or you you don't even know what you're doing yet? And so I think it's very common, it's socialization, there's expectations. And I think even when we're in corporate, there's these unwritten expectations that sometimes even managers will have on us that are like, hey, like they expect you to climb the ladder, and you're like, I actually don't want to. Like, that's not the measure of success that I'm going for. It's something else.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

I'm curious for you with that step in terms of stepping down from that exact level role. What did you what did you draw upon to to trust yourself and to move through the responses?

SPEAKER_00 11:44

I think a big one for me, because I was working with a coach myself at the time. I the big eye-opening moment was when I did values discovery with my own coach, and I was able to take a step back and see like the patterns across everything. And realizing that like this is who I am are the values, and the way that I express them is in different ways. Like, yes, it was that role. It also can be in these other ways, too. That gave me the confidence to say it's okay to explore. I always tell clients too that we're not gonna retire from this corporate job. Like, most of us aren't. Like the reality is like people are shifting every few years now. It makes sense to go after what you want and builds, whether that's building something you want to, or maybe you do want a full-time job for the stability. Life is only so long. We only have so much limited time. Yeah, values shift and change over time. Like beginning of career, it might have been like, oh, I want to learn as much as possible. Mid-career, it's like, no, I want to rest, I want sustainability, I want something else. So we go through seasons for sure. Yeah. I am curious. Did you have like fear leading up to that experience going into the unknown of the spectacle?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I don't think I really did, mostly because I because I'd hit such a point of like really of desperation that I was just like, like I I don't know what comes after this, but this can't be my life. This can't be my life being miserable, like staring at a computer screen. So I think in that sense, I didn't necessarily feel fear leading up to it. I think after it, I mean, even sometimes now, like I think where I experience fear is like, can I, as I'm building a business, like, can I actually make this work? And sometimes feeling like because I think before I always thought, well, if it doesn't work out, I can always just like fall back, you know, to a full-time job. But now the market's like wild. So I'm like, yeah, be there. So that's kind of the way, you know, ways that I've experienced fear kind of throughout the journey.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah, absolutely. Like you're definitely not alone there as well. I've I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs who have that too, where it's just like it's like the backup plan to solopreneurship is going back to corporate, but now that corporate's kind of blown up, what does it look like now? So yeah. I'm curious when you are working with clients, how are you helping them like determine their next career move? Are there certain things because I imagine people coming to you might have fear around what's next or that it's unknown what's next for them? Can tell us a little bit about how you support folks and and what your process is like.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

The biggest thing that I always start folks in is reconnecting to their bodies. And partly because kind of my practice is rooted in semantics, but also because I believe that the body is one of the main ways that our intuition and our inner wisdom speak. And that's really like the core goal of when I'm working with clients is that whatever kind of career transition they're in, that they're able to tap into what they actually want, that they're able to ultimately tap into self-trust. In terms of reconnecting to their body, the basic things of, and again, it sounds very, very basic, but like, hey, are you tuning into your signals of like I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I need to relieve myself, I'm tired, and and meeting those needs because in corporate it's a very common that you know we blow past and it's normalized, right? And yeah, and rewarded. And rewarded.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah. Yeah. But if we're not able to tune into those basic body signals, then it can be a lot harder to tune into kind of the more subtle signals of you know what what your intuition um may be saying to you. So that's kind of the core part of it. And then really a lot of the work that I'm doing together with clients is helping them um tune back into their voice through different reflection exercises and to in our sessions kind of explore different, you know, the common scenarios that they're going through, exploring what um what future goals they have, and then starting to like kind of like by listening to the body surface up like hey, what are the what are the scripts and the stories that you know at one point they they helped you get to where you needed to be, but that right now you're feeling like don't serve you anymore?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Very similar type of approach that I take with my clients as well. I'm curious because of the way that the market currently is, obviously, people have the reality is some people have don't have the financial backup or like they're just trying to hold on to their role because they need the stability while everything's crazy. Do you think career moves are possible when there's like financial constraints for folks?

SPEAKER_01 16:46

It's a very, it's a very important question. Mining is like a thousand percent real, economic constraints are a thousand percent real. And I think with this, it gets tricky though, because I think the image that people might have in their minds is blow up your life, quit your job, and go all in on a business. Yeah. You know, most of us don't have the leeway to do something like that. And so what I say to folks is that it's it's okay to build a bridge towards what you want. How can you start exploring what you're curious about, what questions you're asking, what's of interest to you through low-stakes experiments? Like talk to somebody that's doing something that you're interested in, right? Yeah, or maybe you're able to do a class. So, what are these things that are accessible that don't mean blow up your eyes and go into your office and say fear?

SPEAKER_02 17:43

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't recommend, even though maybe you I've done it before.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

So yeah, I've done it many times. At least personally in many of my career transitions, it is like this point where the body's talking to me, yeah, I'm ignoring it, I'm carrying on. I'm like, no, I just need to keep going. And then what ends up happening is like I hit this breaking point and I'm like, fuck it, I gotta quit, or like F this, I need to go, and I leave. Like that was my historical pattern. I think that what you're talking about, it's like it's almost black and white thinking for people. It's like, well, I'm either working full-time or I'm leaving and I'm going to do my own thing and I'm building this other thing. And what you're talking about is where's the gray in the in-between? Because oftentimes it's not just a one-to-one straight journey. What are the experiments you can run if you are networking and looking for a new full-time role? Who are the people you can talk to? What does that look like? There's a lot of in-between and like possibilities that I think people can have blinders to or just need someone else to kind of show them the perspective.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Yeah. And I think it can also feel sometimes it can feel safer to lean into a story of like, well, like I can't do that black and white thing. So like I just need to hunker down where I am.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

And for context, too, to kind of make it more tangible. One story that I used to have myself was like, I can't be a business owner, like, I can't be a coach, I can't be like a therapist, I can't do this. And with a gentle kind of questioning, I I was able to shift that. Like it's like, oh no, actually I can, and now I'm doing it. And it took someone else outside of myself to kind of challenge those thoughts to me that I had and be like, Well, why can't you? Is that true?

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah. Yeah. And like what, like kind of getting curious about where is that, where's the idea of like, oh, I can't wise y thing, you know, and and again, curiosity versus like judgment, because sometimes people kind of sway and be like, oh, but it's like, you know, where's that where's that coming from? Like just having a conversation with that part of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, I love that. I think that's one of the biggest things that I try to emphasize with clients is the curiosity over judgment. It's the we're always learning, what is like, where did that thought come from? What are you gonna do differently? It's just always continual progression in that way. So you mentioned like experimentation is kind of an approach you take with clients. If someone is just becoming aware of like this narrative that we're talking about that's kind of blocking them, it don't no longer fits, it no longer applies to them, they're not sure what they want. What's kind of the first step that someone could take?

SPEAKER_01 20:39

I think an accessible first step someone can take is reflecting on past experiences where you felt alive. In these past experiences, I would say not they can be inside of work or they can be outside of work, they can be in different environments, but being curious and reflecting on, oh yeah, like in this, you know, experience I felt alive. What was it about that experience? Was it people I was with? Was it the environment? Was it what I was getting to do? And that sort of can start to become this thread of inquiry where you start reconnecting to what makes you feel alive and and what you desire. Um, because I know it can be, especially when if we're used to not being in touch with what you want, it can be just be like, I don't know, I don't know what I want. So that can be a way to to tap into it.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Your previous experiences are signals for sure. And I think with corporate and work, we're so like anxiety is contagious, the movement always being on is contagious, and so we don't give ourselves that gift of slowing down. And so I think that's really beautiful about the just taking time to reflect like, what do I like? Like, even if it's experiences in the past, why did why? That job, why did I take that job? What drew me to it? And then how am I feeling about it now? And kind of comparing it can really start to once you see the patterns, the confidence, and I think the inner knowing comes back for people as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I think also I'll I'll share this book that our oh you can't see it. You can't see it, but it's the magic of knowing what you want by Tracy G. Highly recommend this book. And she talks about that. She talks about um what she calls desire fog, right? That's really common for folks to be like, I don't know what you want to do. And one of the other things she talks about is, you know, noticing when you start to put down, say things that you're curious about, things that you want to do, noticing that pragmatism, for example, like help shuts down that yeah that that place of curiosity. So how can you instead of automatically shutting it down, not dismissing the practical realities, but like can you put it in kind of a separate bucket, but let yourself be present to like what desire is emerging when you missed out those interests?

SPEAKER_00 23:07

I love that. I tangentially, I feel like whenever we talk, you always have an amazing book recommendation. So deliver it again. Thank you. Was there anything that you wanted to share with the group that I didn't ask you already?

SPEAKER_01 23:39

One thing that that I would offer is that transition takes time. It does, yeah. And I think in our culture we've also we're also really programmed to treat uncertainty as though there's something wrong. And so it's like, you know, even again, especially in corporate, I think there's a lot of like, eliminate the uncertainty. Yeah. And that's not that's not how nature works, that's not how creativity works. There's just an aspect of a process of becoming that happens in the darkness. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with you, you're just in in process, which can feel very uncomfortable, but there's nothing wrong with you. You're just you're going through a natural cycle of becoming.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, yeah. I love what you're saying about the uncertainty because as humans, we hate it, like we want to eliminate it. We overthink it too because we want certainty. And then um, yeah, we're overthinking because we want certainty. And then we kind of get in our own way in some ways because we're overthinking. It's funny when I at least have gone through career transitions myself or I help clients, oftentimes it's like what you're saying, we're just bringing them back to themselves and letting them sit with it. And sometimes like the big aha you think you're waiting for is actually not as big. It's like it's this thing you've been circling around for a while, and like this dream or desire you've always had in the back of your head, but we are giving you the space to think about it and finally make moves towards it as well. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't always have to be so hard. Sometimes it can be easeful and uh rooting and a coming home to yourself. Yeah. Um, I am seeing a message. How do you shift people from getting stuck in one phase of experimentation because they do want that certainty that like something's either gonna work out or whatever question they might get? How do you keep them going, keep them iterating?

SPEAKER_01 25:48

A question that I invite um into clients for into that phase for clients is like, what is the information? Like, what is what is kind of the least amount of legible information you need in order to make a different or next step? Or, you know, okay, like what inviting them in to make a clear, even if it's a very small decision around what do you want to do with all of this information? Yes. Because I think again, especially I think women and fans who are highly competent and conscientious often get stuck in this phase of like, I'm gonna research and I'm gonna research and I'm gonna research.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

And uh I would say even if you're not pursuing entrepreneurship, the thing I have learned in entrepreneurship is like you need to as much as possible like do something in taking action and then reflect on that and get data. And so that's a process I take my clients through, which is like, okay, like take the action, reflect, and it can be a micro action, but just keep keep taking action.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

I would say um, as a researcher and as a coach, a lot of my clients end up being from research backgrounds or like science-based backgrounds, very common. Um, and so I always try to bring it back to like the learning goals. What are you trying to learn through experimentation? Because even when we say we're networking or having conversations, or maybe you're volunteering or something like that, you're actually leading with like the method first rather than the learning goal or the research question that you have. And so I kind of bring that approach to career strategy and transitions. So it's like, what are you trying to learn? Who do you need to talk to? How do you know what are you gonna, how are you gonna apply the information? Yes. So we're not just collecting, collecting analysis, paralysis in many ways. So I find that experimental approach, that's how we're measuring like success. And then it makes it easier for folks who might be more cognitively strategy or research-based in how they approach things. I'm curious how you generally approach thinking through compromises in your decision making around work. For example, if something's a great role in a company, but they have limited PTO, how do you think about those when it comes to kind of your next opportunity?

SPEAKER_01 28:03

I I would think about it, invite clients to recenter on what is important to you in this current season. So, for example, like with this one, if if the limited PTO is kind of a maybe a sticking point because you're wanting to, maybe you're wanting to travel more, maybe you're just wanting more flexibility, kind of going through a little bit of a a weighing process of what's important to me in this season of my life for myself, for my family, for my career goals, and then weighing out what are you willing to, what are you willing to be like, okay, I'm willing to like put up with that. No, actually this is this is a non-negotiable. But I really, really invite my clients to center on what is it that you actually want so that you are consciously making the decision, not like, well, this is here, it's okay. And then initially not being what you actually want.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah. Similarly, I'll ask people like, what are you prioritizing for the season? Or what do you what do you want for the season? This is something I'm personally experiencing because I am in a season of very much fullness. Like I got baby grad school business, like want to have fun, be out in the garden myself. And so there is a lot of compromises that I have to make. I actually end up I have like a priorities list that I keep like at my desk, just as always a reminder. It's like, you know, this season, it's always me, family's like second, work, school. Like that's the order for a lot of the season that I'm in. It's not gonna be that way always, but that's where we are right now. Um, and so I I walk folks through similar exercises as well. And then I also do an activity called the ideal work profile, where we actually go through different components when someone's transitioning or searching for work. We do like the magic wand ideal. And then we also will do like if you need a bridge roll, what are your minimums? And like let's prioritize that. Like if you're gonna take a job but it's not meeting your financial goals, like that's the no, that's the thing you're not compromising on. If you are for this season prioritizing rest or PTO or like you're struggling from burnout, then that's the highest priority. Maybe it's going back to them and negotiating part of the offer or looking at a different place entirely. So yeah.

unknown 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I also invite my clients to consider how is it that they're wanting to feel or that they imagine they'll feel because what can also happen is that we can think like if I once I get XYZ thing, XYZ, then I'm gonna feel this way, but then you get to and you're like, oh, actually, I don't feel this way. So how can you I I call it like the energetic heartbeat. I like invite my clients into like how do you connect into kind of the way you want to feel? Maybe it's through music, through different things that inspire you, that connect you back into that energy, so that that also becomes like a fuel and a beacon as you're making the decision. So that again, it doesn't mean that it'll necessarily be absolutely everything that you want, but you're doing it from that energetic standpoint of what you want, so that you're making kind of a clear and empowered decision.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Because a lot of the times, too, when we're in scarcity mindset or market is crazy, we can make decisions out of fear. And how do we make that decision when you're grounded and intentional and really focused on what you want and how you're gonna feel on a day-to-day? Because that's something like if you accept a job, you're committing to that usually. You're waking up, you're gonna have to be in it. So, are you gonna be able to survive with limited PTO or is that something that really you need to for yourself for just self-care perspective? So yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

How can they reach out to you if they want to learn more? Folks can reach out to me on LinkedIn, which I know people have mixed feelings about LinkedIn, but I promise I'm not I'm not a weird like LinkedIn influencer thing. I I probably say a lot of things on LinkedIn that you're like, I want to say that out loud. Um, and then um you can also find me on Substack. I'm she speaks softly on Substack and then on my website at Nyam Adwaji Doc.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Amazing. I will drop a link in the chat too. Um, she has this amazing uh reflection career reflection journal for anybody that is interested. Um and we have a few more events coming up for folks who might be interested in joining as well. Um, so you can go to learnmindfully.co slash events for that. It's all free for the summer. And then I also have an offering. Um, it's a free resource for anybody who is trying to get more in touch with their thoughts, their feelings about their next step, but they're hearing all this noise from like outside of them. Um, so there's some great reflection activities for folks in that as well. So yeah. Um thank you so much for joining today. It was so lovely to have you with us. Have a great weekend, everyone. Thanks for being here. If something in this episode landed with you, feel free to pass it along to someone who might need it too. You can leave a review, subscribe, or just keep tuning in. We're figuring it out together. And remember your story, your voice, your becoming. It all matters.